What’s the Difference Between Jealousy and an Actual Red Flag?

Kitty Chambliss with Gordon and Jen, guests on the Loving Without Boundaries podcast

Here’s the question underneath the question: is what I’m feeling telling me something true about right now, or is it telling me something true about what happened to me a long time ago?

Those two things can feel exactly identical in your body. That’s what makes this so hard. And it’s exactly what my client Gordon lived through. Gordon’s first marriage ended because his wife was serially unfaithful — the real thing, repeated, painful, years of it. When he and his wife Jenn opened their marriage after 20 years together, on paper there was nothing to be afraid of. Jenn wasn’t hiding anything. She wasn’t breaking any agreement. She was doing exactly what they’d talked through and consented to together. And Gordon still found himself gripped by a fear he couldn’t reason his way out of.

He described it to me almost exactly like that — feeling threatened, feeling jealous, and knowing, even in the moment, that he wasn’t accusing Jenn of doing anything wrong. The fear was old. It just didn’t know that yet.

There’s a real difference between a red flag and a false alarm, and it isn’t about how intensely you feel it — both can feel exactly as urgent as each other. The difference is in the evidence. A red flag is built on something that’s actually happening: broken agreements, dishonesty, boundaries getting pushed, a partner who won’t be transparent with you. A false alarm is built on a story from somewhere else entirely — an old betrayal, a past marriage, a nervous system that learned a long time ago to expect the worst — showing up dressed as a reaction to what’s happening today.

What actually helped Gordon find his footing wasn’t willpower. It was listening. On one of our group coaching calls, he happened to be present while Jen was talking openly about her own experience — not performing for him, not managing his feelings, just being honest in a room. And something clicked. He heard, directly, how she actually talks about their relationship when he’s not the one asking the questions. That gave him something logic alone hadn’t been able to hand him: real, current evidence that the story running in his head didn’t match what was actually true.

If you’re standing in that same fear right now, wondering whether it’s protecting you or haunting you, ask yourself Gordon’s real question: is there evidence in front of me, or is this a story from somewhere else wearing my partner’s face? Both deserve your attention. They just don’t deserve the same response.

About This Episode

Gordon and Jenn have been married over 20 years, each having come out of a previous marriage that ended in infidelity. After two decades of a strong, monogamous partnership, they began exploring ethical non-monogamy together — and Gordon found himself unexpectedly gripped by fears from his past that he thought he’d already worked through.

In this episode, Gordon and Jenn talk with Kitty about the specific moment Gordon realized his fear wasn’t evidence of anything happening in his current marriage, what it took to actually believe that in his body and not just his head, and what happened when they eventually shared their relationship structure with their teenage children.

Full Episode Transcript

Coming up on today’s show, Gordon and Jenn, who have both been in marriages that failed due to infidelity on each of their partners’ parts, met and have enjoyed a great relationship together. Having lived in a monogamous marriage for 20 years, after reading some kinky books and searching out other fun sexual adventures, growing ever closer and curious about their own fantasies, Gordon and Jenn stepped out into the world to explore the possibility of making these fantasies a reality — starting with a threesome after adventuring out to a sex club. Because that experience was so fun and exciting, Jen’s excitement and motivation toward this new world grew — and Gordon began feeling pangs of some of the old feelings from his past marriage and the infidelity that caused so much difficulty. This is what brings Gordon and Jenn to the Jealousy Survival Guide Loving Without Boundaries coaching program.

Welcome to Loving Without Boundaries, where we hear inspiring stories, share actionable advice, and talk about the challenges and the joys of ethical non-monogamy and polyamory. I’m your host, Kitty Chambliss. Coming up after the break, my conversation with Gordon and Jenn.

I’m thrilled to be here with Gordon and Jenn — they’ve come to work with me over the last couple months, and they’ve had such incredible success that I’m thrilled they said yes to share their story. Welcome — I’d love it if you’d introduce yourselves in your own words.

Good morning, I’m Jenn. Gordon and I have been married over 20 years. We both came from first marriages that ended because of infidelity on our partners’ parts — they saw greener pastures and left — and we ended up single at the same time. We’ve been together ever since. We’re each other’s best friends.

I mean, that introduction makes it sound like we got together just because we’d both been through something crushing — but she is smoking hot. I let it wait a while, but I had to see if I could get a hold of that.

We have four kids — two from Gordon’s first marriage that I came in to be a step-mom to, and two we have together, who are still at home, late teens now. Really, it was just after talking about fantasies, our pasts, what we might want to experience sexually together, that we decided to explore consensual non-monogamy.

We felt fairly secure, communication was there, and we thought — hey, we can go out and have some adventures.

When you reached out to me, roughly two and a half months ago — where was each of you at? What made you reach out?

As we started venturing out, I saw a different person in her than I expected. Our marriage was really good — I never felt like my previous wife was looking anywhere else, but this lady here was always focused on home, on us. When we opened up, I saw her changing and opening up, and it frightened me. It started opening some old fear and jealousy I thought I’d already dealt with.

You thought you’d already gotten over it, and then, surprise — there it was again.

It hit me hard. And I want to be clear — I wasn’t putting this on her. This wasn’t me accusing her of doing anything wrong outside of what we’d agreed to. This was a fear coming in from inside me. I did counseling, hypnotherapy, meditation — it got a little better, but it wasn’t reined in. I was listening to podcasts trying to find anything that might help, and that’s how we found you.

I remember our first call very vividly — just how emotional you both were, the tension, the frustration of wanting this to work and not knowing how.

Looking back now, is there anything you can see more clearly about what was underneath that fear?

That fear was really about — do I feel like an influential person, a desired person? I had things from my past that made me feel like I wasn’t. And it wasn’t just talk therapy or meditation that was going to fix that. I needed real tools.

Once you started the program — what shifted?

Going through the modules on introspection, on values, on where I actually come from — I realized a lot of what I thought defined me was BS. I was more empowered than I realized. And then there was a moment on one of the group calls — I’d popped in and out, and I happened to catch Jenn sharing something in the group, not performing for me, just being honest about her experience. And hearing that gave me such solid belief in who she actually is. I realized — I don’t know what I’m worried about. She’s being completely upfront. There’s no evidence of anything else. That gave me a lot more solid belief in our relationship.

That’s such a powerful moment — hearing your partner be honest in a space where they’re not managing your feelings, just being themselves.

And it wasn’t just about our relationship, either — it was about who I am, period. Understanding my own values, my own story, separate from all the old noise.

I think the shift for me was recognizing this course wasn’t just about ethical non-monogamy. It was about who are you, what motivates you, what are your values — and understanding that before you can even get to good agreements with a partner. That was a much-needed bonus I didn’t expect going in.

Where would you say you are today?

We’ve had these incredible conversations with our kids — about judgment, about how people have their own stories, and how those stories don’t have to be compatible with ours for us to coexist. That’s rippled into how we interact with everyone, not just each other.

We actually told our kids we’re ethically non-monogamous. That was huge. And their response was basically — okay.

They didn’t freak out. It felt more genuine, more authentic, not having to hide anything, even though we’d never lied to them — we just hadn’t said it outright before.

Would you recommend this process to someone struggling the way you were?

Wholeheartedly. Even if you’re single, even if your partner has no interest in doing the work themselves — you’ll get so much out of it. Some of the people in our group were doing it entirely on their own.

The relationships that came out of it, too — there was a group of guys in our cohort going through this together, and being able to say “I’ve been dealing with the exact same thing for years” and have someone else say “I get it, I’m dealing with it too” — that’s hard to find anywhere else. We still message each other now.

Thank you both so much for being so forthright and vulnerable here. For anyone listening who’s struggling the way Gordon and Jenn were, it all starts with a free call at lovingwithoutboundaries.com/apply.

Thanks for everything you put into compiling all this — there’s no way we could have done this on our own.

Thanks for tuning in to today’s show. If you like what you heard, are struggling with some aspect of your relationships, and you’re interested in seeing if you’re a fit to work with me as your relationship coach, here’s what I invite you to do next. Head over to lovingwithoutboundaries.com/apply — that’s lovingwithoutboundaries.com/apply — and book a call to speak with me. I’ll get on the phone with you for about 45 minutes, and we’ll get you crystal clear on three things. Number one, exactly what’s not working well in your relationships right now. Number two, ideally, where you’d like to be and what might be getting in the way. Number three, the exact strategy to get you there, helping to close that gap. Remember, creating healthy, open relationships does not typically happen by itself. Many often need expert guidance to make it happen. We’ve helped clients all over the world feel safe, happy, and secure in open relationships while not losing their mind or their cherished partners. To see if we can help you do the same, head over to lovingwithoutboundaries.com/apply. I’m Kitty Chambliss, and let’s talk soon.

If This Is Where You Are Right Now

You don’t have to white-knuckle your way through this alone. I wrote the Jealousy Survival Guide for exactly this moment — the one where you can’t tell if the fear in front of you is protecting you, or just haunting you. Gordon couldn’t tell either, until he could. There’s a path through it.

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KITTY CHAMBLISS, Master Coach (ICF-Certified), CPC
Relationship Coach | Speaker | Educator | Trauma-Informed
Author of “Jealousy Survival Guide: How to feel safe, happy, and secure in an open relationship”

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